[Gate-users] Gate-users Digest, Vol 92, Issue 39
Zinou Ymail
z.elghribi at ymail.com
Wed Jan 29 21:35:02 CET 2014
New Gate version
Thank you and best regards.
---------------------------------------
ELGHRIBI MOHAMED ZINEDDINE
Principal Radiation Medical Physicist
Centre Pierre et Marie Curie (CPMC @ Algiers)
Tel : +(213)555588659
E-mail : z.elghribi at gmail.com/ z.elghribi at ymail.com
> Le 29 janv. 2014 à 20:50, gate-users-request at lists.opengatecollaboration.org a écrit :
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Wavelength-shifting (WLS) fibres coupled to scintillators
> (Filipe Castro)
> 2. Re: Proton Therapy Simulation (David Sarrut)
> 3. Re: Wavelength-shifting (WLS) fibres coupled to scintillators
> (Vesna Cuplov)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 17:53:35 +0000
> From: Filipe Castro <ifcastro at ua.pt>
> To: Vesna Cuplov <vesna.cuplov at gmail.com>
> Cc: "gate-users at lists.opengatecollaboration.org"
> <gate-users at lists.opengatecollaboration.org>
> Subject: Re: [Gate-users] Wavelength-shifting (WLS) fibres coupled to
> scintillators
> Message-ID: <CBA98BEA593F354AA31A7E260FD3FFE2A43855EB at SEQUOIA.ua.pt>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hello Filipe,
> Hi Vesna, thanks for the reply.
>
> I want to simulate scintillation photons produced by 511 keV gammas and their optical path through a LYSO scintillator with mirror polished ends and reflective side surfaces. One end of the crystal is coupled to a wavelength-shifting fibre (double-cladded BCF-91A fibre), such that crystal and fibre make a 90 degree angle.
> As I am not experienced with Gate (using vGate 2.1), I have many doubts regarding the proper physics and geometry necessary for the simulation, namely of the optical photons path, optical boundaries and fibre geometry. Is there anyone who has simulated similar experiments with this kind of fibres, for example in the AxPET project, who can help me out?
> I've already recompiled Gate with optical ON.
> In order to define the reflective surfaces of the crystal, do I need to first define the volumes with the reflective material or is it possible to define the surfaces only with the crystal volume?
>
> If your crystal is the LYSO material, you just need to define your crystal volume with the LYSO material properties in Materials.xml. For the polished ends and reflective surfaces, you define the surfaces with the finish, reflectivity, .... parameters in Surface.xml.
>
> Don't I need to have 2 volumes of different materials to define a surface? For now I have only defined the LYSO volume. My question is if I need to define the volume with white reflective material (0.1 mm BaSO4) and then the surface, e.g.
>
> /gate/LYSO/surfaces/name Surface-From-LYSO-To-Reflector
> /gate/LYSO/surfaces/insert Reflector (previously defined?)
> /gate/LYSO/surfaces/Surface-From-LYSO-To-Reflector/SetSurface surface_name (defined in Surface.xml)
> Or if these 3 lines are enough and I only need to define the surface properties in Surface.xml ?
>
> Is it necessary to define separate volumes with the different materials of the fibre (core, first clad and 2nd clad)? In this case, it is a square fibre, so what would be the best way to do it?
> For the WLS fiber, you can describe it as one volume or more detailed volumes. I think one volume would be enough as long as you have its properties which are the absorption/emission wls spectra, mixture (in case you use one volume that is a mix of sub components) refractive index, ...
>
> The thing is that the core of the fibre is polystyrene (n = 1.60), the 1st clad is acrylic (n = 1.49) and the 2nd clad fluor-acrylic (n = 1.42). These refractive index differences are designed to obtain a higher photon trapping efficiency. In the case of a square 1 mm fiber, the core has approx. 0.94 mm thickness, the 1st clad 0.04 mm and the 2nd clad 0.02 mm. I'd like to have the simulation as realistic as possible, so I wonder what is the best solution to achieve this. I can assume the whole volume of the fibre to have the same absorption/emission wls spectra.
>
>
> Are these physics processes enough: Scintillation, PhotoElectric, Compton, GammaConversion, OpticalAbsorption, OpticalWLS, OpticalBoundary ?
>
> You might also need OpticalRayleigh and OpticalMie which are the physics processes related to the optical photon scattering. In that case you would need the Mie and/or Rayleigh scattering lenghts, material anisotropy for Mie scattering. This depends on your crystal and fiber materials.
>
> Thanks, I will look that up.
>
> I hope this helps,
> Vesna
> Thanks again! It sure helps. I hope you or someone can help with the remaining doubts.
> Best,
> Filipe
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 20:20:06 +0100
> From: David Sarrut <David.Sarrut at creatis.insa-lyon.fr>
> To: Loic Grevillot <loic.grevillot at gmail.com>
> Cc: gate-users <gate-users at lists.opengatecollaboration.org>, Edward
> Smith <edwardaksmith at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Gate-users] Proton Therapy Simulation
> Message-ID:
> <CAKTJC4Bs5id_QtZa+yc1by3Hy6eFSr_B0+y6w8SfVhP8Qbt8tg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> and there is an example of proton simulation in the source code :
> example/example_Radiotherapy/ look the listofexample.txt file
>
> David
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 4:03 PM, Loic Grevillot <loic.grevillot at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Dear Edward,
>>
>> I think you should look into the documentation section Radiotherapy
>> applications from
>> http://wiki.opengatecollaboration.org/index.php/Users_Guide_V6.2.<http://wiki.opengatecollaboration.org/index.php/Users_Guide_V6.2>
>> Especially Readout parameters for Radiotherapy applications: Actors<http://wiki.opengatecollaboration.org/index.php/Users_Guide_V6.2:Readout_parameters_for_Radiotherapy_applications:_Actors> here
>>
>> http://wiki.opengatecollaboration.org/index.php/Users_Guide_V6.2:Readout_parameters_for_Radiotherapy_applications:_Actors
>>
>> Some actors such as
>> * Electromagnetic (EM) properties
>> * Track length
>> * Delta kinetic energy
>> could be helpful for you.
>>
>> You can also use the "filter" capabilities for a specific particle.
>>
>> Hope this helps!
>>
>> LG
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Lo?c
>>
>>
>> 2014-01-29 Edward Smith <edwardaksmith at gmail.com>
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I'm trying to model a linear energy transfer for a proton beam and for
>>> this I need energy deposited for each step and the step's length. I've been
>>> reading through the online user manual and I'm not sure if this is
>>> possible? From what I've understood to get this data I would need to define
>>> everything within a system. I've tried using the scanner system and
>>> attaching a crystalSD as a work out but it's failed to work.
>>>
>>> Is there any way I can use GATE to do this?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Edward
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Gate-users mailing list
>>> Gate-users at lists.opengatecollaboration.org
>>> http://lists.opengatecollaboration.org/mailman/listinfo/gate-users
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gate-users mailing list
>> Gate-users at lists.opengatecollaboration.org
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>
>
>
> --
> David Sarrut, Phd
> Directeur de recherche CNRS
> CREATIS, UMR CNRS 5220, Inserm U 1044
> Centre de lutte contre le cancer L?on B?rard
> 28 rue La?nnec, 69373 Lyon cedex 08
> Tel : 04 78 78 51 51 / 06 74 72 05 42
> http://www.creatis.insa-lyon.fr/~dsarrut
> _________________________________
> "2 + 2 = 5, for extremely large values of 2"
> _________________________________
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 21:25:37 +0100
> From: Vesna Cuplov <vesna.cuplov at gmail.com>
> To: Filipe Castro <ifcastro at ua.pt>
> Cc: "gate-users at lists.opengatecollaboration.org"
> <gate-users at lists.opengatecollaboration.org>
> Subject: Re: [Gate-users] Wavelength-shifting (WLS) fibres coupled to
> scintillators
> Message-ID:
> <CAOibXMEkqL7QZ+rrXRFUnVPcbGjYQ+S2ir0kUSoJNb5pq+rKQg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hello,
>
>
>>
>> I want to simulate scintillation photons produced by 511 keV gammas and
>> their optical path through a LYSO scintillator with mirror polished ends
>> and reflective side surfaces. One end of the crystal is coupled to a
>> wavelength-shifting fibre (double-cladded BCF-91A fibre), such that crystal
>> and fibre make a 90 degree angle.
>>
>> As I am not experienced with Gate (using vGate 2.1), I have many doubts
>> regarding the proper physics and geometry necessary for the simulation,
>> namely of the optical photons path, optical boundaries and fibre geometry.
>> Is there anyone who has simulated similar experiments with this kind of
>> fibres, for example in the AxPET project, who can help me out?
>>
>> I've already recompiled Gate with optical ON.
>>
>> In order to define the reflective surfaces of the crystal, do I need to
>> first define the volumes with the reflective material or is it possible to
>> define the surfaces only with the crystal volume?
>>
>>
>>
>> If your crystal is the LYSO material, you just need to define your crystal
>> volume with the LYSO material properties in Materials.xml. For the polished
>> ends and reflective surfaces, you define the surfaces with the finish,
>> reflectivity, .... parameters in Surface.xml.
>>
>>
>>
>> Don't I need to have 2 volumes of different materials to
>> define a surface? For now I have only defined the LYSO volume. My question
>> is if I need to define the volume with white reflective material (0.1 mm
>> BaSO4) and then the surface, e.g.
>>
>>
>>
>> /gate/LYSO/surfaces/name Surface-From-LYSO-To-Reflector
>>
>> /gate/LYSO/surfaces/insert Reflector (previously defined?)
>>
>> /gate/LYSO/surfaces/Surface-From-LYSO-To-Reflector/SetSurface surface_name
>> (defined in Surface.xml)
>>
>> Or if these 3 lines are enough and I only need to define
>> the surface properties in Surface.xml ?
>
> Yes, to define a surface you need to define both volumes: crystal and the
> 0.1mm reflector. In your definition of the surface, you only specified the
> behavior of the surface for photons going from the reflector towards the
> Lyso crystal. You need to define the surface behavior for photons going
> from the Lyso towards the reflector. These are 2 different surfaces. See
> the user's guide, there is a drawing.
>
>> Is it necessary to define separate volumes with the different
>> materials of the fibre (core, first clad and 2nd clad)? In this case, it
>> is a square fibre, so what would be the best way to do it?
>>
>> For the WLS fiber, you can describe it as one volume or more detailed
>> volumes. I think one volume would be enough as long as you have its
>> properties which are the absorption/emission wls spectra, mixture (in case
>> you use one volume that is a mix of sub components) refractive index, ...
>>
>>
>>
>> The thing is that the core of the fibre is polystyrene (n = 1.60), the 1stclad is acrylic (n = 1.49) and the 2
>> nd clad fluor-acrylic (n = 1.42). These refractive index differences are
>> designed to obtain a higher photon trapping efficiency. In the case of a
>> square 1 mm fiber, the core has approx. 0.94 mm thickness, the 1st clad
>> 0.04 mm and the 2nd clad 0.02 mm. I'd like to have the simulation as
>> realistic as possible, so I wonder what is the best solution to achieve
>> this. I can assume the whole volume of the fibre to have the same
>> absorption/emission wls spectra.
>
> If you have all the specifications of your fiber as you seem to have, you
> can simulate it with all these details. I don't know about the best
> solution.
> Regarding the trapping efficiency (which you know as it is derived from the
> 3 refractive index), I think this is actually related to the WLS absorption
> length (you have the spectrum?). The WLS absorption/emission will tell
> where inside the fiber the optical photon absorption/emission took place.
> Maybe the safe way to make sure you get the right trapping efficiency is
> actually to simulate the core, 1st and 2nd clads.
>
> vesna
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