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<p>Hi all,</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>we tried again to play around with the mesh structure but that did not change the results.</p>
<p>We changed the resolution of the mesh structure from 12 to 432 facets for a box geometry of 1 cm x 1 cm x 0.5 cm.
<br>
</p>
<p>In our opinion, for a box geometry the mesh resolution will not have an impact so that is also what we expected.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Furthermore we scored a sphere with R = 0.25 mm in a waterphantom in a proton beam and get good results comparable to yours. When we score in a cylinder, we get for the Gate geometry twice the value of the CAD geometry.
<br>
</p>
We will keep on searching for a solution of our problem, if anybody has another idea we would be very thankful!</div>
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Kind regards <br>
</div>
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Leonie</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>Von:</b> Maikol Salas Ramirez <mmsalas@gmail.com><br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Montag, 8. Oktober 2018 15:21:29<br>
<b>An:</b> Leonie Brodbek<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Maxime Chauvin; gate-users<br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Gate-users] Problems with scoring edep and dose in non rectangular geometries and CAD geometries</font>
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<div>Hi all,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I did test (for my, this topic is very important), I put a cylinder (H=1mm, R=0.25mm) and a sphere (R=0.25mm) in a Lu-177 box 1m3 (images attached). The result are consistent:</div>
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S-Value (mGy/Mbq-s)</td>
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Geometry</td>
<td style="font-family:"Liberation Sans";font-size:x-small" align="left">Cylinder (bone)</td>
<td style="font-family:"Liberation Sans";font-size:x-small" align="left">Background (source)</td>
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Solid</td>
<td style="font-family:"Liberation Sans";font-size:x-small" align="right">9,07</td>
<td style="font-family:"Liberation Sans";font-size:x-small" align="right">0,01</td>
<td style="font-family:"Liberation Sans";font-size:x-small" align="right">10,18</td>
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Mesh</td>
<td style="font-family:"Liberation Sans";font-size:x-small" align="right">8,87</td>
<td style="font-family:"Liberation Sans";font-size:x-small" align="right">0,01</td>
<td style="font-family:"Liberation Sans";font-size:x-small" align="right">9,96</td>
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%Error</td>
<td style="font-family:"Liberation Sans";font-size:x-small" align="right">-2,15</td>
<td style="font-family:"Liberation Sans";font-size:x-small" align="right">0,70</td>
<td style="font-family:"Liberation Sans";font-size:x-small" align="right">-2,14</td>
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<div>For sure there is a small difference, but it comes from the surface triangulation in the mesh.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I calculated the deposited energy by the spectrum.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It will be interesting to see under what conditions there is not consistency between the two geometrical approaches.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best regards</div>
<div>Maikol<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">El lun., 8 oct. 2018 a las 13:20, Maikol Salas Ramirez (<<a href="mailto:mmsalas@gmail.com">mmsalas@gmail.com</a>>) escribió:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Leoni,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Just going back to this sentence "W<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,EmojiFont,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols;font-size:16px">hen scoring edep we obtain
a value of about 3000 MeV in the geometry built with Gate, when scoring in the CAD geometry we obtain a value of about 370 MeV</span>".</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This difference can come from the "finish" of your mesh, it is important to remember that the mesh representation is not the same that the 3D volume with perfect curves. I would say that it is a good idea to play with the level of detail of the finish
of the mesh surfaces. Also depending of the size of your geometries and if you are simulation electrons, you could have big differences, because electron are very sensible to this surface changes.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best regards</div>
<div>Maikol</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">El lun., 8 oct. 2018 a las 12:36, Leonie Brodbek (<<a href="mailto:leonie.brodbek@uni-oldenburg.de" target="_blank">leonie.brodbek@uni-oldenburg.de</a>>) escribió:<br>
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<p>Dear Maxime,</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Thank you! <br>
</p>
<p>U<span>nfortunately</span> we already checked this and it seems that both geometries fit well and that this does not cause the problem.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Kind regards</p>
<p>Leonie<br>
</p>
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<div id="m_3229437794552699469m_6760064267659526411divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>Von:</b> Maxime Chauvin <<a href="mailto:maxime.chauvin@inserm.fr" target="_blank">maxime.chauvin@inserm.fr</a>><br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Montag, 8. Oktober 2018 12:01:11<br>
<b>An:</b> Leonie Brodbek<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Elia Alessio; <a href="mailto:gate-users@lists.opengatecollaboration.org" target="_blank">
gate-users@lists.opengatecollaboration.org</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Gate-users] Problems with scoring edep and dose in non rectangular geometries and CAD geometries</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>Dear Léonie,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>something you could check is the position of the geometry. Importing a .stl file can result in a unwanted shift due to a different reference frame from CAD compared to how GATE build a box or a cylinder. And this can cause a difference in Edep and absorbed
dose.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As a rough check you can use the visualisation (Gate --qt) to see if your geometries are identical between your 2 simulations.<br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Kind regards,</div>
<div> Maxime Chauvin</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On 8 Oct 2018, at 11:26, Leonie Brodbek <<a href="mailto:leonie.brodbek@uni-oldenburg.de" target="_blank">leonie.brodbek@uni-oldenburg.de</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="m_3229437794552699469m_6760064267659526411Apple-interchange-newline">
<div>
<div id="m_3229437794552699469m_6760064267659526411divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, "EmojiFont", "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji", NotoColorEmoji, "Segoe UI Symbol", "Android Emoji", EmojiSymbols;">
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">Hi Alessio,</div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><br>
</div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">thanks a lot!</div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><br>
</div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">We tried to create geometries with a CAD program to import more complex geometries and tested it with scoring in a box that is built inside Gate and with the same geometry built in the CAD program.<span class="m_3229437794552699469m_6760064267659526411Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
</div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">When scoring edep we obtain a value of about 3000 MeV in the geometry built with Gate, when scoring in the CAD geometry we obtain a value of about 370 MeV. We imported the CAD geometries via a .stl file<span class="m_3229437794552699469m_6760064267659526411Apple-converted-space"> </span><span>and
the insert specification "tessellated</span>". We obtained the same behavior when scoring Edep in cylinders built in gate and with the help of a CAD programm.<span class="m_3229437794552699469m_6760064267659526411Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
</div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><br>
</div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">Kind regards</div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">Leonie</div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><br>
</div>
</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:686px">
<div id="m_3229437794552699469m_6760064267659526411divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b>Von:</b><span class="m_3229437794552699469m_6760064267659526411Apple-converted-space"> </span>Elia Alessio <<a href="mailto:alessio.elia@medaustron.at" target="_blank">alessio.elia@medaustron.at</a>><br>
<b>Gesendet:</b><span class="m_3229437794552699469m_6760064267659526411Apple-converted-space"> </span>Montag, 8. Oktober 2018 10:58:37<br>
<b>An:</b><span class="m_3229437794552699469m_6760064267659526411Apple-converted-space"> </span>Leonie Brodbek<br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class="m_3229437794552699469m_6760064267659526411Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:gate-users@lists.opengatecollaboration.org" target="_blank">gate-users@lists.opengatecollaboration.org</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b><span class="m_3229437794552699469m_6760064267659526411Apple-converted-space"> </span>RE: Problems with scoring edep and dose in non rectangular geometries and CAD geometries</font>
<div> </div>
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<div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Hi Leonie,<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-US">thanks for your email. Concerning the first point you spotted could you be more precise? (for example what do you mean with “different results with different order
of magnitude”?). With respect to the second point, this is a known behavior of the dose actor. At the moment, it cannot handle correctly non-regular geometries as far as I know. I would recommend you to work with the edep and then post-process the dose.<span class="m_3229437794552699469m_6760064267659526411Apple-converted-space"> </span><u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-US">Hope it can help!<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-US">Best<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-US">Alessio<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US"><span class="m_3229437794552699469m_6760064267659526411Apple-converted-space"> </span>Gate-users
[<a href="mailto:gate-users-bounces@lists.opengatecollaboration.org" target="_blank">mailto:gate-users-bounces@lists.opengatecollaboration.org</a>]<span class="m_3229437794552699469m_6760064267659526411Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="m_3229437794552699469m_6760064267659526411Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Leonie
Brodbek<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="m_3229437794552699469m_6760064267659526411Apple-converted-space"> </span>Montag, 08. Oktober 2018 10:31<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="m_3229437794552699469m_6760064267659526411Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:Gate-users@lists.opengatecollaboration.org" target="_blank">Gate-users@lists.opengatecollaboration.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="m_3229437794552699469m_6760064267659526411Apple-converted-space"> </span>[Gate-users] Problems with scoring edep and dose in non rectangular geometries and CAD geometries<u></u><u></u></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
<u></u> <u></u></div>
<div id="m_3229437794552699469m_6760064267659526411divtagdefaultwrapper">
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Dear all,<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">we try to perform simulations of different detectors with Gate and have some problems when scoring dose and edep in different volumes, perhaps anyone can help us with
these issues:<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">- When we score dose and edep in a gate constructed geometry and in the same CAD geometry we obtain different results with different orders of magnitude (even in rectangular
geometries).<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">- When we score dose and edep in non rectangular geometries we cannot recalculate the dose out of edep and it seems that the dose in Gate is calculated by a geometry
surrounding the real geometry but having rectangular corners, e.g. for a sphere of radius 0.5 cm the dose can be recalculated out of edep by a cube with side length 1 cm.<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">We would be very thankful for any help!<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Kind regards<span class="m_3229437794552699469m_6760064267659526411Apple-converted-space"> </span><u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Leonie Brodbek<u></u><u></u></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
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<span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important"><a href="mailto:Gate-users@lists.opengatecollaboration.org" target="_blank">Gate-users@lists.opengatecollaboration.org</a></span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important"><a href="http://lists.opengatecollaboration.org/mailman/listinfo/gate-users" target="_blank">http://lists.opengatecollaboration.org/mailman/listinfo/gate-users</a></span></div>
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_______________________________________________<br>
Gate-users mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Gate-users@lists.opengatecollaboration.org" target="_blank">Gate-users@lists.opengatecollaboration.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.opengatecollaboration.org/mailman/listinfo/gate-users" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.opengatecollaboration.org/mailman/listinfo/gate-users</a></blockquote>
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