<div dir="ltr">Hello, <div> </div><div>just a short comment: GATE is not validated at all with MT Geant4, and should not be used with Geant4 MT. </div><div> </div><div>Modifying Gate to use Geant4 MT capabilities would require lot of work and is not currently planned. </div><div> </div><div>David</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"> <div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 5:29 PM, David Boersma <<a href="mailto:david.boersma@physics.uu.se" target="_blank">david.boersma@physics.uu.se</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi, Den 01/02/2016 kl. 17:08, skrev Andrej: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> A quick and dirty fix is to set the randomSeed to some run related number. I know that in geant people would sometimes start each event with a seed equal to that event number. Here you only have to do it run-wise. </blockquote> Unfortunately when we try that we still get identical outputs for successive runs. I think that the problem is not in how Gate obtains a seed (from /dev/random with "auto" or reading a literal user-supplied value from the macro), but rather in how Gate communicates that seed to (a multithreaded version of) the geant4 library. David <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Cheers Andrej surabhi balagopal nair je 2/1/2016 ob 4:40 PM napisal: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Hello, Can anyone tell me whether the Virtual Gate is built on GEANT4 multithread ON or OFF? Thank you, SN On 1 February 2016 at 10:14, David Boersma <div><div class="h5"> <<a href="mailto:david.boersma@physics.uu.se" target="_blank">david.boersma@physics.uu.se</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:david.boersma@physics.uu.se" target="_blank">david.boersma@physics.uu.se</a>>> wrote: Hi, It looks like Thomas Deschler was right: random number seeding in Gate (current develop version, but I suspect the conclusions also hold for release 7.1) only works correctly if the Geant4 10.1 libraries were compiled with multithreading OFF. By "correctly" we mean: with "auto" seeding you get a different seed every time you run it, and therefore statistically independent outputs. If you use a geant4 installation built with multithreading=ON, then successive Gate runs will give identical outputs. We verified this (on Linux and on MacOSX) by compiling Geant4 with and without multithreading, and then building Gate with it. We ran Hediye's minimal RT macro (shoot electrons on a target foil, and collect a phasespace of the particles after it, stored in a ROOT output file). We ran the macro twice (renaming the output directory in between). "Ekine" histograms of the two runs were numerically identical when we ran *with* multithreading and they were clearly different *without* multithreading. Short term action item: it would be good to document this clearly in the README file and/or the 7.1 installation guide on the wiki. Medium/long term action item: fix Gate to work correctly with multithreaded geant4. I have more comments, but they are more technical, will submit them as "issues" on GitHub. HTH, David B. Den 01/02/2016 kl. 11:18, skrev hediye acun: Hello Loic, We tried your recommendations with David Boersma. First we run main macro file for 20 particles and stored output in PhS_new.root file. We got particle's properties(location and energy) in root with Scan command and then we closed root to make sure root will not remember the first output file due to the same tree's name. We run main macro second time with same particle number(20) to get second output file which called PhS_try.root. In root with scan we obtained particle's properties again for second run. After that we compared two text files which include particle's location and energies and there was no difference between them. David Boersma run same macro file in his computer which has Geant4 compiled with multithread OFF, and he obtained different results for same number of primaries. My Geant4 compiled with multithread ON. We are going to try to compile on my computer with multitherad OFF and on David's computer multithread ON to investigate whether it really depends on the multithreading. Best regards. Hediye acun PS. It looks like the mailing list not working today. David didn't receive your reply and we didn't see on the archive either. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From:* Grevillot Loic <<a href="mailto:loic.grevillot@medaustron.at" target="_blank">loic.grevillot@medaustron.at</a> </div></div> <mailto:<a href="mailto:loic.grevillot@medaustron.at" target="_blank">loic.grevillot@medaustron.at</a>>> *To:* hediye acun <<a href="mailto:acunhediye@yahoo.com" target="_blank">acunhediye@yahoo.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:acunhediye@yahoo.com" target="_blank">acunhediye@yahoo.com</a>>>; "<a href="mailto:gate-users@lists.opengatecollaboration.org" target="_blank">gate-users@lists.opengatecollaboration.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:gate-users@lists.opengatecollaboration.org" target="_blank">gate-users@lists.opengatecollaboration.org</a>>" <<a href="mailto:gate-users@lists.opengatecollaboration.org" target="_blank">gate-users@lists.opengatecollaboration.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:gate-users@lists.opengatecollaboration.org" target="_blank">gate-users@lists.opengatecollaboration.org</a>>><div><div class="h5"> *Sent:* Monday, February 1, 2016 9:20 AM *Subject:* RE: [Gate-users] problem with random number seed? Hello, In my experience the command"/gate/random/setEngineSeed auto"works. In your example you are looking at histograms, but to verify that issue I was thinking about something different: -If the seed did not change as you suspect, the physical properties from every single particle stored in your Phase Space one after the other shall be exactly the same (position, direction, energy, etc.) for 2 simulations. -Could you check that on a particle basis for 10 or 20 particles? You could even try a very simple example where you could randomly sample 10 particles and look if they are the same for 2 simulations. Let us know! Thanks Image:Uncle_Sam_pointing_finger_small.jpgImage:We-Need-You1-324x500.jpgImage:superdupont-we-need-you.jpgImage:gsam_want_gnu_small.jpg *//**/GATE is a /**/research community/**/, /**/ please contribute!/*// *You just started? You found some errors in the examples and the documentation?* § You can correct the documentation <<a href="http://wiki.opengatecollaboration.org/index.php/Main_Page" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://wiki.opengatecollaboration.org/index.php/Main_Page</a>> on the wiki web site § You can share your experience on the user mailing-list <<a href="http://www.opengatecollaboration.org/mailinglist" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.opengatecollaboration.org/mailinglist</a>> ** *You have a few months of experience or more?* § You can correct or even propose new examples <<a href="http://www.opengatecollaboration.org/Examples" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.opengatecollaboration.org/Examples</a>> § You can propose a new gate actor, it is as easy as a plug-in! <<a href="http://wiki.opengatecollaboration.org/index.php/GateActor" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://wiki.opengatecollaboration.org/index.php/GateActor</a>> *You are now an official Gate addict and you need more?* § You can participate in Gate C++ source code development: debugging, propose new classes, etc. ðFor new developments, use git <<a href="http://www.opengatecollaboration.org/Git" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.opengatecollaboration.org/Git</a>> and contact the gate-devel-mailing-list <<a href="http://www.opengatecollaboration.org/mailinglist" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.opengatecollaboration.org/mailinglist</a>> to be guided. *//**/Thanks for your contribution, the OpenGate collaboration!/* *From:*<a href="mailto:gate-users-bounces@lists.opengatecollaboration.org" target="_blank">gate-users-bounces@lists.opengatecollaboration.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:gate-users-bounces@lists.opengatecollaboration.org" target="_blank">gate-users-bounces@lists.opengatecollaboration.org</a>> </div></div> [mailto:<a href="mailto:gate-users-bounces@lists.opengatecollaboration.org" target="_blank">gate-users-bounces@lists.opengatecollaboration.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:gate-users-bounces@lists.opengatecollaboration.org" target="_blank">gate-users-bounces@lists.opengatecollaboration.org</a>>] *On Behalf Of *hediye acun *Sent:* Friday, January 29, 2016 3:46 PM *To:* <a href="mailto:gate-users@lists.opengatecollaboration.org" target="_blank">gate-users@lists.opengatecollaboration.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:gate-users@lists.opengatecollaboration.org" target="_blank">gate-users@lists.opengatecollaboration.org</a>><div><div class="h5"> *Subject:* [Gate-users] problem with random number seed? Hello All, I have Gate "develop" version and at the same time geant4.10.1.0 and root_v5.34.32 on the GPU. My operating system is Linux Mint 17.2 . I am triying to simulate a linac head to get Phase Space of photons. Just for an example I run Gate for a basic geometry which include only electron beam, target filter and Phase space plane inside a linac geometry. When I run Gate two or more times for same "number of primaries" I got the exactly the same Phase Space distributions (histogram of Ekine completely identical). But I am using "/gate/random/setEngineSeed auto" command and according to the documentation that should give me the different seed every time when I run it. I would expect some random differences between PhS's from different runs. Does anyone have any idea about this issue? Thank you in advance. Hediye Acun *Disclaimer:* Please notice our E-Mail Disclaimer <a href="http://www.medaustron.at/email-disclaimer/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.medaustron.at/email-disclaimer/</a> _______________________________________________ Gate-users mailing list <a href="mailto:Gate-users@lists.opengatecollaboration.org" target="_blank">Gate-users@lists.opengatecollaboration.org</a> </div></div> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Gate-users@lists.opengatecollaboration.org" target="_blank">Gate-users@lists.opengatecollaboration.org</a>> <a href="http://lists.opengatecollaboration.org/mailman/listinfo/gate-users" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.opengatecollaboration.org/mailman/listinfo/gate-users</a> _______________________________________________ Gate-users mailing list <a href="mailto:Gate-users@lists.opengatecollaboration.org" target="_blank">Gate-users@lists.opengatecollaboration.org</a> <a href="http://lists.opengatecollaboration.org/mailman/listinfo/gate-users" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.opengatecollaboration.org/mailman/listinfo/gate-users</a> </blockquote> _______________________________________________ Gate-users mailing list <a href="mailto:Gate-users@lists.opengatecollaboration.org" target="_blank">Gate-users@lists.opengatecollaboration.org</a> <a href="http://lists.opengatecollaboration.org/mailman/listinfo/gate-users" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.opengatecollaboration.org/mailman/listinfo/gate-users</a> </blockquote><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"> _______________________________________________ Gate-users mailing list <a href="mailto:Gate-users@lists.opengatecollaboration.org" target="_blank">Gate-users@lists.opengatecollaboration.org</a> <a href="http://lists.opengatecollaboration.org/mailman/listinfo/gate-users" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.opengatecollaboration.org/mailman/listinfo/gate-users</a></div></div></blockquote></div> <div> </div>-- <div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr">David Sarrut, Phd Directeur de recherche CNRS CREATIS, UMR CNRS 5220, Inserm U1206<div>Centre de lutte contre le cancer Léon Bérard 28 rue Laënnec, 69373 Lyon cedex 08 Tel : 04 78 78 51 51 / 06 74 72 05 42 <a href="http://www.creatis.insa-lyon.fr/~dsarrut" target="_blank">http://www.creatis.insa-lyon.fr/~dsarrut</a> _________________________________</div><div> "2 + 2 = 5, for extremely large values of 2" _________________________________</div></div></div></div></div> </div>