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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Discrepancies observed in our example between mathematical and voxelized geometry were due to a wrong definition of water material in our Schneider
material file.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Water was defined by fractions : O 33,3.. % et H 66,6...%<br>
but have to be defined by mass fraction : 88.8% O and 11.2% H.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Apologies for this mistake and thanks for your help<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><br>
Sophie Chiavassa<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">De :</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> Yann PERROT [mailto:perrot@clermont.in2p3.fr]
<br>
<b>Envoyé :</b> jeudi 23 mai 2013 17:36<br>
<b>À :</b> Chiavassa Sophie<br>
<b>Cc :</b> David.Sarrut@creatis.insa-lyon.fr; François Smekens; Delpon Gregory; chloeherve@hotmail.fr<br>
<b>Objet :</b> Re: [Gate-users] comparison between mathematical and voxelized geometry<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Bonjour Sophie,<br>
<br>
A mon avis, la différence des cuts que tu observes vient du fait que l'eau n'est pas définie de la même façon dans les deux macros:<br>
<br>
- cuve mathématique:<br>
Water est utilisé, défini par le nombre d'éléments 2 H et 1 O<br>
<br>
- cuve voxelisée:<br>
Water_4 est utilisé, défini par les fractions : O 33,3.. % et H 66,6...%<br>
Mais attention, là il faut la fraction massique des éléments soit 88.8% pour l'oxygène et 11.2% pour l'hydrogène.<br>
En modifiant cela tu devrais retomber sur les 33 keV pour un cut de 20 µm.<br>
<br>
Est-ce que du coup les différences observées ne viendraient pas de cette différence de matériau, avec beaucoup trop d'hydrogène dans la cuve voxelisée?<br>
<br>
Pour tes autres question:<br>
<br>
- La step function concerne l'ionisation. Fixer "0.2 0.1 mm" signifie qu'un électron ayant un parcours supérieur à 100 µm ne peut pas perdre lors d'une ionisation plus de 20% de son énergie cinétique.<br>
- Le Step Limiter est aussi appelé Step Max. Cela consiste à imposer une taille de step maximale afin d'assurer un nombre certain de steps dans une géométrie.<br>
<br>
<br>
Tiens moi au courant.<br>
<br>
A+<br>
<br>
Yann<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Le 23/05/2013 14:52, Chiavassa Sophie a écrit :<o:p></o:p></p>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Bonjour,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Je pense que François pourrait nous aider grandement sur ces problèmes car c’est plus un problème de méconnaissance des subtilités de Gate de notre part.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Je vais essayer d’être le plus simple possible dans mes explications .</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Voici en pièce jointe les 2 simulations.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Elles sont très simples :</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="mso-list:Ignore">-<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Source monoE sphérique 50 keV</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="mso-list:Ignore">-<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Cuve eau mathématique d’une part et voxélisée d’autre part</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="mso-list:Ignore">-<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Dose actor, physique, graine, nb part identiques</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Egalement la comparaison entre les 2 résultats (feuille excel).
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Nous avons affiché des infos sur le suivi des particules (/run/verbose 2).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Nous avons mis en entrée des Cut e- en distances de 0.02 mm pour les 2 simus.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Nous obtenons dans l’eau des énergies de coupures correspondantes différentes pour les 2 simus ! (cf fichier CUTenergie.docx)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ça nous parait anormal, non ?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">J’aurai aussi besoin d’ explications concernant le Step function et le Step Limiter.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Voilà, j’espère que vous pourrez nous aider la dessus.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">A+</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Sophie</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">De :</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:david.sarrut@gmail.com">david.sarrut@gmail.com</a> [<a href="mailto:david.sarrut@gmail.com">mailto:david.sarrut@gmail.com</a>]
<b>De la part de</b> David Sarrut<br>
<b>Envoyé :</b> mercredi 22 mai 2013 15:20<br>
<b>À :</b> Yann PERROT<br>
<b>Cc :</b> Chiavassa Sophie; François Smekens<br>
<b>Objet :</b> Re: [Gate-users] comparison between mathematical and voxelized geometry</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Bonjour Sophie, <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">problème en effet ! Il faut regarder attentivement pour voir, c'est un cas important à résoudre. François pourra tu l'aider stp ?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">est ce que tu suis les e- ? Dans le cas 1 (math volume), il n'y pas d'interfaces alors que dans le cas deux il y en a entre les voxels, ce qui change un peu la donne. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">bonne idée également de Yann : vérifier la dose intégrale.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">A+<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">David<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 2:57 PM, Yann PERROT <<a href="mailto:perrot@clermont.in2p3.fr" target="_blank">perrot@clermont.in2p3.fr</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi Sophie,<br>
<br>
Did you try to check the energy conservation with particles totally absorbed in the water tank (e.g. 5 keV electrons) ?<br>
<br>
Yann<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Le 22/05/2013 12:19, Chiavassa Sophie a écrit :<o:p></o:p></p>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">I performed two simple simulations (see main.mac):</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">-</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.0pt">
</span><span lang="EN-US">Spherical monoenergetic source of photons (50 keV) in a water tank (20x20x20 cm)
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">-</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.0pt">
</span><span lang="EN-US">Dose actor Volume attached to the water tank and a resolution of 100 100 100 (voxel size = 2x2x2 mm3)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">-</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.0pt">
</span><span lang="EN-US">Same physic.mac (see physics.mac) and same number of particles
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Wingdings">§</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.0pt">
</span><span lang="EN-US">Simulation1 = mathematical water tank (box)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Wingdings">§</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.0pt">
</span><span lang="EN-US">Simulation 2 = voxelized water tank (image analyse)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">Relative results are identical (relative-comparison.jpg) but absolute results present significant discrepancies (absolute-comparison.jpg), although the number
of initial particles is the same for the two simulations. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">Someone could explain that ?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">Thanks</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Sophie Chiavassa</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Radiophysicienne</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Service de physique médicale</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Centre de Lutte Contre le Cancer Nantes Atlantiques –
</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">René Gauducheau</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Site Hospitalier Nord Bd J. Monod</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">44805 ST HERBLAIN CEDEX</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><a href="tel:0240679963" target="_blank">0240679963</a></span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><img border="0" width="190" height="95" id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CE5B89.66C8B5C0" alt="cid:193052914@09082012-3151"></span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Gate-users mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:Gate-users@lists.opengatecollaboration.org" target="_blank">Gate-users@lists.opengatecollaboration.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://lists.opengatecollaboration.org/mailman/listinfo/gate-users" target="_blank">http://lists.opengatecollaboration.org/mailman/listinfo/gate-users</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Gate-users mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Gate-users@lists.opengatecollaboration.org">Gate-users@lists.opengatecollaboration.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.opengatecollaboration.org/mailman/listinfo/gate-users" target="_blank">http://lists.opengatecollaboration.org/mailman/listinfo/gate-users</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">David Sarrut, Phd<br>
Chargé de recherche CNRS<br>
CREATIS, UMR CNRS 5220, Inserm U 1044<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Centre de lutte contre le cancer Léon Bérard<br>
28 rue Laënnec, 69373 Lyon cedex 08<br>
Tel : 04 78 78 51 51 / 06 74 72 05 42<br>
<a href="http://www.creatis.insa-lyon.fr/%7Edsarrut" target="_blank">http://www.creatis.insa-lyon.fr/~dsarrut</a><br>
_________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> "2 + 2 = 5, for extremely large values of 2"<br>
_________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
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